uk train developers and their future

so as it says....


do you think the UK crowd will come back? & actually learn to get along?

Judging by past history, observations made by old timers and given that personal grievances are involved, I should think . . . .
No.

Many who were not involved with the recent disagreements are keeping a low profile and will possibly reappear at some point.

As for learning to get along, those who get along (most of us) don't need to learn and those that need to learn are in denial that they have a problem.

So, what would you predict??

A good question.
In my opinion, the British BVE scene is a bit specific, since there are a few people, who apparently have some personal issues and being unable to deal with them, the focus on annoying others. As I have said, this kind of behavior is a bit enigmatic to me; I always thought we were creating the things for the simulator for enjoyment (both ours and that of end users), not for proving ourselves how big ego we are able to build. Apparently some people have a different opinion, though.
What I want to say is this simulator needs cooperation, not fights. I find it a little bit... unusual (shall we say?) to give somebody permission to use my own work and then retract the permission after that guy has put in a load of time to create something. The same way I find it unusual to send somebody an accusatory, taunting and/or threatening emails. all of this has happened and I just don't understand.
I mean, once I have allowed something, I won't forbid it just because I am angry about permission receiver. Of course, I can say "sorry bro, but from now on, you are not allowed to use any of my new stuff". But retracting permissions given some time (maybe years) ago is gutless and heavily harmful for the development.
So, unless the British developers learn how to deal with personal issues and possible problems at home, I think the situation wil remain the same. Shame, really.

Derryck is right when he describes the true purpose of the simulator. It is unfortunate that some misguided individuals have lost sight of that direction and wish to bring chaos and discord to others who are using it for the purpose intended. It was always the same, remember, when we were little children. There would be some horrible, nasty brat that spoiled the games for the others. And those brats are still with us, though the rest of us have grown up.

Never mind, there are still plenty of us who want to carry on in the spirit of co-operation and friendship. And indeed, so we shall. We won't let the nasty boys spoil our fun. I recall just the phrase to use as a motto, it was either on that Irish fellas ( Grey Mick?) sim site or one of his forum postings, when he said "Sod the begrudgers". I think that sums it up, don't you?

wheeltapper wrote:Derryck is right when he describes the true purpose of the simulator. It is unfortunate that some misguided individuals have lost sight of that direction and wish to bring chaos and discord to others who are using it for the purpose intended. It was always the same, remember, when we were little children. There would be some horrible, nasty brat that spoiled the games for the others. And those brats are still with us, though the rest of us have grown up.

Never mind, there are still plenty of us who want to carry on in the spirit of co-operation and friendship. And indeed, so we shall. We won't let the nasty boys spoil our fun. I recall just the phrase to use as a motto, it was either on that Irish fellas ( Grey Mick?) sim site or one of his forum postings, when he said "Sod the begrudgers". I think that sums it up, don't you?

I do indeed wheeltapper! your motto is very funny!

I just think the permissions war has gone too far... and it looks like this is the quite after the shells were dropped..

Not my motto, it was graymac who coined the phrase. And we will all be happy for it to remain quiet and for us all to enjoy sharing our work and experiences in the way we have shown it can be done, in this place. Thanks to Derryck.

It wasn't a permissions war that did it this time.

No, Michelle just simply doesn't want people arguing on her forums. And rightly so! It has been these arguments which seem to have sadly put a damper on development - so you can see why Michelle wishes to keep her form free of malice.

I'd like to think that it's just a small minority, and that things on the British BVE side of things will return to some form of normality after a certain point.

But in the meantime, all that can really be done is lock out those individuals who seek to publicly have a go at one another.

Either way, I hope that BVE Worldwide will provide a fresh start, away from these transgressions, so that the majority of us can continue to develop the amazing projects we've put together in the past ten years plus.

Actually I wasn't referring to Michelle. I think she runs her forums very professionally, if only more forums followed suit.

Ah I know the number of people you're referring to - but we will maintain decorum, and not name names.

kwijiboenator wrote:Ah I know the number of people you're referring to - but we will maintain decorum, and not name names.

I was only referring to one person in particular...

kwijiboenator wrote:
Either way, I hope that BVE Worldwide will provide a fresh start, away from these transgressions, so that the majority of us can continue to develop the amazing projects we've put together in the past ten years plus.

That is something I sincerely hope in, too. Still, it is up to us and us only whether it will happen. And I agree we don't need to name anyone here, since it would only be spilling oil into a fire. We need to extinguish the fire, not strengthen it.

I honestly think too much damage has been done this time. With the apparent loss of Steve Green and no future hosting on the horizon for his content, I think this could be a serious nail in the coffin for BVE being mainstream. Especially whilst RW is now turning out better content.

There will still be a market for BVE as it is after all free but I think development has suffered and will either take a long time, years, to rebuild to a healthy level or not recover at all.

We shall see. The problem is also the fact it is quite difficult to contact Steve...

I do have better lines of communication to him but I don't want to bother him with BVE, it's clear he's done with it and I want to respect his wishes.

I see, I only wanted to offer him hosting of his work here. But no reply has arrived to my email, so I won't push him into anything...

Well as far as I'm concerned anything with my work can be hosted anywhere so long as it isn't BVE Terminus but what I'm more looking for is a centralised BVE location now, all these websites everywhere are silly.

There is BVE routes and trains which catalogues a lot of BVE content, which is one thing, but the best times to be had were when Trainsimcentral had it's forum - it gave BVE a real buzz. Everybody was working on something - and as such were exchanging ideas all the time.

Well, we have to try and re-establish a prosperous and productive community. That's what it is all about.

It won't be easy with fewer developers, but as the saying goes - less is more, more or less.

With the loss of Steve Green's collection less is less.

You have said that anything with your work can be republished aywhere... do you have the source files so that I can check them out?

Sadly no, I don't even have bve on my computer anymore, I stopped developing a long ago when A former moderator had me banished from the community after fabricating some stuff against me.

Voyager, HST, 170, 158 to name a few things I had material in.

OK, that's enough. I think we have all agreed that we won't put any names into this as we are heading for a new start and, as Turbo correctly mentioned, the way forward is being open honest, and free. Therefore I will now lock this topic until your heads cool down a bit. If you have any objections or you feel you have something to add, pm me.

Turbo, though I understand you might be disrupted by some events that could have occured/happened to you (not sure what that would be, but nevermind), please try to calm down. And I am not quite sure what the above comment of one of the users has to do with eventual permissions for this forum

mrknowitall: Same apllies to you, the guy has apologized and since this is the first time, I will accept the apology and keep watching you both, guys. As I said, this place is dedicated to development, sharing ideas and thoughts and eventually chatting about trains, railways etc. Nothing more or less.

OK. I have been pm'ed that a few people would like to add some thoughts to this thread, therefore I will now unlock it. I hope your heads have already calmed down and another locking of the thread won't be needed.

NO NAMES, NO CONTINUING FIGHTS FROM OTHER PLACES, NO TALKING ABOUT ALAN WHEELER, SINCE HE IS NOT CONNECTED TO THIS FORUM.

Should you not respect the given rules, you will become a subject to 1day ban. Let's all focus on the most important thing, which is (for someone maybe surprisingly) not arguing, but DEVELOPING. Thank you.