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Brno BVE Website

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BillEWS
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Post by Dexter Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:24 pm

As for the vegetation randomization, you are right, Quork. Such change (randomization implementation) would require a change on the program level; the "RND" command/parameter would have to be introduced. This would help for example with rotation etc. To be honest, I would be happy to have more tree textures, but those are hard to create. The trees usually grow in groups and you cannot really define the proper border between each other's branches and also, if you have a picture suitable for testure, it gives you hell to separate the actual texture in a way that does not ruin it. :-(
Is it just me, or is the window for message sending new?
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Post by Quork Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:33 pm

I thought you did an update?

Yes, taht would be a program thing, alas... Though I think I might add such a functionality to my arse-forward-program; however that would mean the program would delete the single "wall" line and create a single line for every single tree, which would dramatically increase the length of the route file. I suppose most addon creators wouldn't like this at all...
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Post by Dexter Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:54 pm

It kinda depends on if pluses would outnumber the minuses I guess. But! I was also thinking about a new concept - to add rotation into an .animated file, where the RND could be available if I am not mistaken. Here's the cons though:

1) If the RND is defined in an *.animated file, it will probably be calculated only once (when the route is loading) and then, whenever you put the object into a route, you get the same-looking thing again. 
2) Randomizing the rotation for every single object would probably increase HW demands. Now, we have a given value that is associated with the given object. If we were to randomize things around, the number shuffling processes required for that would most probably add to CPU/GPU load.
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Post by Quork Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:59 pm

If I remember the documentation right, the calculation would happen the moment the object comes into sight. However, to make sure, one might also try to force the calcuation to happen the moment the distance to the train falls below e.g. 2000m?
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Post by Dexter Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:22 pm

You are right, you can apply the calculation after certain conditions are met. That, however, puts a load on the GPU I think.
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Post by Quork Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:40 pm

That's something to check. Surely that's no solution for all trees and bushes, but it should be good enough for special places, e.g. trees you see for a long time.
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Post by Dexter Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:30 pm

Right, it could help for example on that sloped terrain I have presented on last screens...
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Post by Quork Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:33 am

Someone asked for tree textures? Here's a first batch

Brno BVE Website - Page 8 4nh
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 8wd
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Zzti
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 1rz
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Ph49

Transparency colour is always rgb(255,255,255).

Not the best tree textures ever seen surely, but should be good enough for most background purposes.
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Post by Quork Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:08 am

Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Zey3
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 I4a5
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Uu0u
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Feeb
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Post by Dexter Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:08 am

Thanks! I am gonna try to slice them so they have proper sizes (powers of two).
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Post by Quork Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:03 pm

Huh? They are?
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Post by Dexter Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:30 pm

Yeah, right, it was a problem at my end. Very Happy
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Post by Guest Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:05 pm

.


Last edited by lonelyinardwick on Wed May 13, 2020 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Quork Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:52 pm

I'm pleased they please ;-)
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Post by Quork Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:57 pm

Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Puc7
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Hmn5
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 F9j
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Vcmg
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Ug8t
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 6hn
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Post by Dexter Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:44 am

Nice, downloading the trees now.Smile 
I hope you don't mind if I do some minor color adjustments...
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Post by Quork Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:52 am

Nope I don't, though I hope you won't make them one colour, 'cause they're really that different. Especially the thuja, which might seem surprisingly yellowish, is really like that.
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Post by Dexter Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:11 am

Of course not! I am quite happy I have some diverse trees for the route!
I am mainly playing with the lightness of those trees - standing next to each other, it looks kinda wrong if one is very light and the other is almost black. :-)
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Post by Dexter Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:44 am

 So, I have had a look at the new textures you provided, Quork. They are nice and useful, but also a bit bigger than I would have expected... for a tree, 512x512 is fairly enough. Imagine if I put like 50 trees into any 600 meters of the route. That would be 50 x 1.6 MB... only for tress.Smile 
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Post by Quork Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:47 pm

Why would it be 50 times 1.6MB? The software isn't that stupid to load the same texture several times, afaik. But feel free to resize the textures for use in less exposed positions. Downsizing where less is enough is always possible. Upsizing not Wink
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Post by Dexter Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:00 pm

 Well, I am not entirely sure how it works, but I think once you need to display let's say 50 trees, the GPU still needs to process it 50 times as they are in different positions (near x far, rotated etc.). Or am I mistaken?

I am not touching the size as that always messes up the transparent color - creates pixels or whole areas with very similar, but still different color. Rather than that, I used Photoshop and transformed the textures into 8 bits resolution. they look the same and the size is significantly smaller - the biggest tree, which had 1.6M now has 560K.Cool 
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Post by Quork Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:06 pm

Yeah, right, decreasing colour depth is very sensible with textures. If you have IrfanView, use the "PNGout"-plugin to save the textures. Saves you another 5% to 20%.

For resizing: Select the transparency colour, substitute it with the object's average colour (acquire it using the pipette tool). Then resize, select that substitution colour and change it back to a distinctive transparency colour. Of course this still produces a border, but it's virtually invisible.
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Post by Dexter Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:20 pm

 As mentioned above, I use Adobe Photoshop. It is capable of exporting the textures in 8-bit colors, and I can use the preference "Save for web and devices", which does a progressive scan and saves another space by adjusting color palette. This might be something similar to what you are suggesting.Smile
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Post by Quork Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:30 pm

Nope. PNGout is doing every mathematically possible saving. Takes its time (make it maybe a minute per file for pictures the size of those  textures) but is worth it. The figures mentioned above are against PS and similar programs.

Above textures as size optimised (and partially colour corrected) files:

Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010002%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010003%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010011%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010013%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010017%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010019%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010024%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010038%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010040%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010041%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010045%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 P1010046%20small
Brno BVE Website - Page 8 PC010030%20small


Mind I use dithering when decreasing colour count, which pulls PNG file size partially back up again. Without dithering however it either looks worse or you need more colours, which means the same quality mostly won't be achieved with lesser file sizes.
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Post by Dexter Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:30 am

So the trees have been slightly modified and put to what I hope is a good use. That, however, is up to the others to judge.Smile Please provide feedback on the following screenshots. Enlarge for full resolution.Smile 

Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Scr0210Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Scr0310

Brno BVE Website - Page 8 Scr0110
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