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No matter what I do, the speed at which the automatic air brake engages/disengages does not change

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No matter what I do, the speed at which the automatic air brake engages/disengages does not change Empty No matter what I do, the speed at which the automatic air brake engages/disengages does not change

Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Wed May 08, 2024 12:14 pm

When I distributed the D51 eight years ago, it was the same as this one and had not changed at all, so I released it as is, partly because there wasn't as much interaction with it as there is now.
Even if I try messing with Train.dat again now, there is no change at all.
this is
https://openbve-project.net/documentation_hugo/en/trains/train_dat.html
'Brake cylinder and main reservoir'
Is it something that cannot be changed due to the specifications as written in ?
For example, when towing 50 cars of cargo, I want the brakes to loosen in about 5 minutes.
Train.XML seems to be able to do it in detail, but I don't know much about it as I don't have much knowledge.
TrainEditor2 does not support output to Train.XML, so I don't know the sample format.
I would like to enter it manually from scratch, but since the Train.dat acceleration force curve is optimal, I don't want to mess with it.
Does someone have any ideas to solve these...

Midnight Express Ginga81

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Post by leezer3 Thu May 09, 2024 7:53 pm

I don't think this is going to be controllable at present.

A little TLDR:
The brake system pressure distribution is currently a dummy system, and re-working this will be highly involved, and has a good chance of breaking existing content.

If we consider a 'real' brake pipe, pressure flows from the compressor through to the last vehicle, and the brakes on the first vehicle will release / apply before those on those of the last vehicle.
OpenBVE uses an average based system to distribute pressure:
https://github.com/leezer3/OpenBVE/blob/master/source/TrainManager/Train/BrakeSystem.cs#L18-L53

Basically, this means that the brake pipe pressure for all cars will be constant throughout, which in turn gives you the much faster release you're seeing.

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Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Fri May 10, 2024 6:58 am

Thank you for information!
I understand why it wasn't changed.
Just bring the values ​​from the traditional #MOTOR_P1 section to the acceleration force curve in Train.XML, but Bve5 also includes software to convert from his BVE4 to the new format.
I think this will allow for a smooth transition.
Considering that the S520's disease will not be stable for at least a few years, I think it would be better to implement it in another conversion software (I heard that it is not a fatal disease).
I was able to understand the explanations for each item (I learned that the brake speed can be adjusted), but I only understood the explanation for one car.
However, if there are multiple cars, or a train with several locomotives and cars, I would like one sample data for each.

Code:
<Car 0>
     <CarType>Locomotive</CarType>
</Car 0>
<Car 1>
     <CarType>Passenger</CarType>
</Car 1>
<Car 2>
     <CarType>Freight</CarType>
</Car 2>
section.
I see that there is a < Car > section, but if I write several < Car > sections, will the vehicle number and type be automatically assigned?
Such as...
Code:
<Car>
  ....
</Car>
<Car>
  ....
</Car>

I would like to understand by comparing with help.
Do you or someone know of any data exposed in Train.XML?

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Post by leezer3 Fri May 10, 2024 6:27 pm

Basically, try playing with CarXMLConvertor (in the main program folder)

Both child car files and a single file are supported.
It *should* populate all currently supported properties with the default values if not set specifically via train.dat

Vehicle numbers are automatically assigned.

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Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Fri May 10, 2024 7:17 pm

I'm sorry for talking about CarXMLConverter without knowing anything about it.
The converted files are very helpful.
For both the single file and the child's car, I left the converted Train.xml, panel.xml, sound.xml, and car(no).xml intact and loaded the vehicle, but the image of the vehicle was displayed in main menu.
In converted Train.xml, the converter written < Description > section.
But, not shown information in main menu.
And even after I started the game, the outside camera went off, and the route camera didn't show anything either.
I think priority XML will be given even if old files are mixed, but could you please convert and display one of something of my D51 configurations for example passenger 5 cars?

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Post by leezer3 Fri May 10, 2024 8:25 pm

You're using the & character in some filenames.
This is why your objects are missing, this wasn't handled correctly by the convertor.

I've fixed this, but I think something isn't quite right with the acceleration of the converted train.

Going to have to investigate a little more fully (the acceleration curves appear OK), which may take a day or two.

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Post by leezer3 Sat May 11, 2024 7:45 pm

Build from today should sort this if you re-convert.

It's a slightly complex side-effect of the Train.xml format moving to using per-car acceleration figures, as opposed to per-train.
A new parameter has been added to the acceleration curve section here- Multiplier.

Set this to 1.0 if manually setting the acceleration figures on a per-car basis, otherwise leave as-is.

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Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Sun May 12, 2024 1:06 pm

I think XML is great because you can adjust the brake time!
each air pressure,
Equalizing Reservoir
BrakePipe
Brake cylinder
I was able to change the time it takes for each internal pressure to reach a certain pressure, but the time it takes to change the brake from 'hold' to 'apply' to back to 'hold' during operation, in other words, the amount of air movement should have been reduced, but the time it takes to reach a certain pressure is delayed.

Even though I am only moving a small amount of air by brake lever, train is moving a lot of air.
And then, the time it takes to reach that amount of air is slow(because by xml's amount).

I would like the auto air brake to behave like this video, which I drove myself in the simulator.
(If possible in the future, I would like to reproduce this action of loosening only the loco brake.)
https://youtu.be/mJ1T8lwhMww?si=7ej8VHZZIWuhNXo3&t=582

How should I set it so that the amount of air that is generated while the lever is moved acts on the brake pipe, etc.?

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Post by leezer3 Sun May 12, 2024 6:50 pm

The brake cylinder has a target pressure, which is calculated roughly as follows:

Actual brake handle setting taking into account safety system (*not* driver) / Max brake handle setting which then gives the total proportion of maximum pressure is the target.

This is increased using the values from <ServiceRate> or <EmergencyRate> setting in the train.xml as appropriate.
Similarly, when released (or the pressure is higher than the current handle setting) it uses the <ReleaseRate>  to drop the pressure.

Looking at the code, the Hold Brake isn't really actually tied into the wider brake system at all, but just modifies the deceleration output directly.

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Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Mon May 13, 2024 9:18 am

The black needle on the right is 'EqualizingReservoir'.
The black needle on the left is the 'BrakePipe'.
The red needle on the left is 'BrakeCylinder'.
The desired display is 'BrakePipe' and 'BrakeCylinder' for the locomotive only on the left.
The current XML is 'BrakePipe' and 'BrakeCylinder' for the average of the entire all cars of the train.
I don't think there are any discrepancies in the information so far.
In other words, the brakes on the entire train are sent evenly according to 'EqualizingReservoir', resulting in the state shown in the current screenshot.
No matter what I do, the speed at which the automatic air brake engages/disengages does not change Screen13
I also understand that in the future it will be set for each vehicle, and now it is an overall average.
I think we are now able to adjust the relationship and speed of each.

I don't know why the brake cylinder pressure is 0.2kg/cm2 even though the decompression is 0.4kg/cm2.
However, currently 'BrakeCylinder' and 'BrakePipe' can only be displayed for the average of the entire all cars of a train, so for example in Panel.xml
< Subject > bc * 0.9 < /Subject >
How about making it behave like a pseudo locomotive by making calculations like this?

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Post by leezer3 Mon May 13, 2024 7:11 pm

I think what you actually want there is to be able to set an animated function in Panel.xml as opposed to the subject.

This should be simple enough (after all, panels are just animated objects internally); let me think about it a little.

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