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Objects teleporting randomly

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SP1900
Midnight Express Ginga81
Rakago
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Post by Rakago Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:01 pm

Greetings!

I already opened a thread about some bugs, including this one, but I think it deserves its own thread.

First of all I want to say that this has been happening to me since version 1.8.0. Currently I'm using the latest version, 1.8.2.3 (x64).

Here's a video demostrating the bug: https://youtu.be/MHaabuwiXNA

As you can see, the roof.csv object of the train teleports to what it seems to be 0, 0, 0 coordinates when moving the camera to a certain angle. It's self explanatory really.

I tried different routes and trains, this happens on EVERY route, in some cases it's the bogie of the train or maybe even a route object.

I have no idea why this happens... It's getting kinda annoying Neutral
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Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:04 pm

This bug is happen at when we are enable the new renderer.
A lot of Japanese users reported to me.
But, for a long time, we couldn't find absolutely happens condition.
So, we couldn't report.
But, it happens.

In my case, roof and coupler cover is lost, and deck is teleporting as this screenshot.
And side window's emitting is lost.
Objects teleporting randomly Screen18

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Post by SP1900 Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:06 pm

I have had this problem also. The body of the locomotive disappears from the train itself and teleports to above the camera viewpoint (the route being blank is not the issue)

Objects teleporting randomly Unknown
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Post by LXQt Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:22 am

Looks very familiar, I think it's the same thing as below
Rendering issues on the latest Nightly Build · Issue #693 · leezer3/OpenBVE

(Recordings back in August)
2021-08-29 13:46:25 - YouTube

At least for me, it usually only happens on route with little faces/scenery.
I can no longer reproduce this in RouteViewer, but the same thing happens on the main program after this.
(Less serious though, probably due to my train being complex enough)

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Post by leezer3 Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:16 pm

Has anyone got a public route / train / track position combination which will reliably reproduce this?

It's not anything I've ever seen, and it's incredibly difficult to look into these things without being able to find them.

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Post by Rakago Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:32 pm

It happens with every route/train...

The route I used in the video was Genova Brignole - Recco (available here)
The loco I used is available here (password is SBB VSOE).

Hope it helps.
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Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:08 pm

No, anyone no have it reliably reproduce.
This warp happen suddenly, and randomly.
So, I had been not report for a long time.
This time, a user had reported, so I reported too.

This warping is happen at some frames.
Warp frame is also randomely, and from one or some frames are warps.

But, some routes that don't happen combination, is nothing happen.
These routes are never been happen do.
My Tohoku Shinkansen and released car, Series 200,925,E2,E5 never been happen.
My new data(created, but not release) ALFA-X, and combined Tohoku Shinkansen (creating now) is happen from Shin-Hanamaki.
But, currently released data what is not happen from Shin-Hanamaki.

This issue is incredively confusion.

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Post by leezer3 Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:35 pm

I can't see anything odd with the linked combination above Sad

Some questions please:
* What viewing distance?
* Is Load in Advance on?
* Presumably it's using the GL3 renderer?

I've made a purely speculative tweak (disabled matrix caching for dynamic objects) in today's build, and added a few minor bits to the F10 debug display.
Would appreciate it if you could reproduce again and provide a screenshot of this, as it'll give me a slightly better idea of what it thinks it's doing.

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Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:58 am

OpenBVE Version:1.7.839.813-vsts 64bit
viewing distance:800m
Enable the new renderer:on
Load in Advance:on
Some results of warping screenshots.
Snow is an animated object, and if this animated object is using, the number of objects has increased significantly(over 12500!).
But, use or not, resut is not change.

To show to the only one frame, PAUSE button pressing is incredibly difficult...
Objects teleporting randomly Screen19
Objects teleporting randomly Screen20
Objects teleporting randomly Screen21

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Post by leezer3 Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:32 pm

Thanks Smile
That shows that you've not done anything I hadn't expected with the controls, viewing distance, camera anchor point etc. which was half of the point.

Would be interested to see any others from the approximate point of a glitch (the glitch itself being visible *is not* important, I'm just trying to find common values such as viewing distance, camera anchor, number of faces and so-on to try and help narrow it down)
Edit:
It would also be interesting to know if you can get it to glitch under WINE or a separate PC. I'm halfway wondering about a graphics card driver bug.....

I've at least found one completely unrelated bug with the readhesion device on a backwards jump as a result of this.

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Post by Rakago Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:11 pm

I have these system specs:

Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 19044) (19041.vb_release.191206-1406)
System Manufacturer: HP
System Model: HP Laptop 15-da1xxx
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8265U CPU @ 1.60GHz (8 CPUs), ~1.8GHz
Memory: 8192MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 8070MB RAM
Page File: 7093MB used, 10193MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 12
User DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
Miracast: Available, with HDCP
Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Not Supported
DirectX Database Version: 1.0.8

I have my Viewing distance at 600m, load in advance off and new render's on

The loco I used had more or less 1400 vertexes, but like I said earlier it happens with every train
Hope this helps
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Post by leezer3 Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:00 pm

That probably rules out a graphics driver issue unfortunately, which leaves me still scratching my head Sad

Your video:
The train is moving (at c. 100km/h)
From what I can see in your video, you first have the camera hovering above the third coach.
You then drop inside the coach.
The camera is then rotated to point upwards, something I'd guess about a 45 degree angle?
This causes the roof of the loco to appear glitchily above the camera?
You then move the camera straight up, and the roof appears with it?

The loco / trainset you've linked is also *not* the same as the one in the video- The coaches are different.
As I'm having trouble reproducing this, it's really important that I have everything exactly the same.
For example, I note that the download is using moving bogies implemented using the car / coupler method. I've got no idea whether what you're using is exactly the same, and whether this is having any affect on what happens.


If you can get your train copy to reliably glitch in this way, it'd be interesting to do the following, and see what happens:
Enter the \Tren\Locomotora folder (within the train), and temporarily remove all the textures found here.
This will cause the object to appear entirely untextured (obviously), but will also cause the sim to squash all faces into a single mesh.

If this single mesh glitches, it tells us that this is very probably train related *somehow*, as opposed to camera.

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Post by Rakago Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:59 pm

Sorry for the different coaches! I'm working on them, I used that locomotive because it pulls the coaches in real life. Laughing I'll try deleting textures soon.

I'll send you a copy of the train in PMs.
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Post by leezer3 Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:03 pm

It's no problem.
Unfortunately, I *still* can't reproduce anything happening with the alternate coaches. Wasn't really expecting anything, but it's another datapoint.

What's really odd is that if your roof glitches, the whole thing ought to, as it's a part of a single object.

Another similar test, which may also be interesting:

Edit the extensions.cfg file, so that it only refers to the locomotive body CSV, e.g.
Code:
[car0]
object = Locomotora\re 66.csv
length = 20.35
[car1]
object = talgo4\1stClass.animated
length = 12.65
[car2]
object = talgo4\1stClass.animated
length = 12.65
[car3]
object = talgo4\1stClass.animated
length = 12.65
[car4]
object = talgo4\1stClass.animated
length = 12.65
[car5]
object = talgo4\Tail.animated
length = 11.51

Does the roof now glitch?

If no, try editing the animated file to remove everything other than the main loco body mesh and try again.
If it still doesn't glitch, add back the other bits one at a time until you find which causes it.


My instinct at the minute is that something is interacting with the train and animated bits somewhere, but we need to find what.
This ties in with Ginga81's problems, as he's using TFOs and some complex animated trains.

I'm still perplexed as to what's causing this at the moment though Razz

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Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:11 pm

A Japanese user reported to me.
So I report.

viewing distance:he said maybe 700m
Enable the new renderer:on
Load in Advance:off
Objects teleporting randomly Aoayai10

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Post by leezer3 Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:32 pm

This definitely looks train related- from the looks of that, the chassis is coming up through the floor there.

It's also probably ruling out anything related to the number of faces, textures or track position, as that's a pretty minimal setup.
Also useful to see that it's unlikely to be speed / camera movement related with a stationary train in this one.

Still digging, I just need to reproduce the thing Sad

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Post by 1969 St. Louis R-40M Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:19 pm

The issue still hasn't been fixed as of 1.8.3.2. Here's my case: https://youtu.be/LoPKQhJ8RhQ

I noticed this happens with large objects, maybe some sort of memory leak?
Thing is this issue is present since 1.8.2.0, older versions didn't have this problem. It didn't really bother me because I was playing on 1.8.1.0, but ever since I noticed that the couplers in extensions.cfg are completely messed up in that version and all older ones down to 1.7, I have to play on 1.8.2.0+ versions and the presence of this glitch is getting quite annoying, especially since I'm making videos.
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Post by leezer3 Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:25 am

That looks to be a different glitch to me, although possibly related in some way.

Nothing appears out of place, things just seem to be clipping out of view at times.
Could be alpha test related, as that did get twiddled with between 1.8.1 and 1.8.2, but only in the new renderer.

Does it glitch with *both* the old and new renderers?
You might want to try upping the viewing distance a bit, as that interacts with the clipping.

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Post by leezer3 Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:47 am

Actually, may have found something....

Please try the build from today and see if that helps things.

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Post by 1969 St. Louis R-40M Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:43 am

Tested the build from today, same problem. But this time I played with some settings.
First as you suggested I increased the viewing distance from 1000 to 5000, the problem disappeared. But that's not an option as I have been playing at 1000 and having it increased affects performance.
The old renderer also gets rid of the issue but definitely not an option as the fps drops to abysmal levels. Setting the transparency to sharp is also a fix, but the looks of the sharp transparency doesn't really satisfy me since transparent textures such as fences or poles just vanish the further away they are from the camera. But I'll take it as a temporary solution.
You said that nothing appears out of place in the video but if you look closely the object moves with the camera when it pops out. How could this be related to alpha?
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Post by leezer3 Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:54 pm

I can't immediately see anything moving or popping out with the camera (this is why it's sometimes mega hard to find stuff on other people's videos...) :/
What I can see at the minute is transparency glitches in the roof and on the far side of the train.

Would be interested to know if decreasing the viewing distance to about 400m helps.
I can't place exactly what's going on at the minute, but it feels like there's another copy of the glitching objects (probably in the final visible block) and we're passing the wrong reference somwhere.


Sharp transparency affecting things is somewhat interesting, but I still think this is a different glitch.
I could understand that affecting where bits of the train sides are popping in / out, and that would definitely be consistant with the change from 1.8.1 to 1.8.2 (as this moved to doing transparency in the shader, as opposed to via the fixed function GL1.2 pipeline), but that would have absolutely no effect on anything glitching with the camera.

Let me do some more fishing around and see if I can find anything else suspicious.

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Post by leezer3 Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:46 pm

Objects teleporting randomly Pc0hUuZ

Reproduction.....
Tempermental as anything (same glitch, but moves around anything upto 50m or so) but 1000m viewing distance actually helped.

I *hope* the latest build from today (it'll generate in a few minutes) might actually nail the glitched objects.

It doesn't however do anything for the transparency issues I can see on the sides of your train. Going to look into these a bit further later and see if I can get anywhere with that.

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Post by 1969 St. Louis R-40M Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:29 pm

The issue has been fixed in the latest 1.8.4.0 stable. Thank you very much.
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Post by Midnight Express Ginga81 Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:08 pm

I re-tested about this again at all distance.
https://bveworldwide.forumotion.com/t2236-objects-teleporting-randomly#21152
At OpenBVE1.8.4.0, it isn't seems happen.
I think that this issue has been fixed.

I am sorry to add to the report, in the driving camera (F1), when we reach the curve, if we are enabled the new renderer, the rail is trembling, and when we are running the straight, a bit wobble.
I feel that at the only driving camera mode, the Track.Accuracy is feel several magnification strongs.
Outer-view's camera is not happen. Only F1 mode.

Route: Tohoku-Shinkansen_Hayabusa1 (en) _v0.09.csv
Train:Any,  but to see the clearly, need the high speed train for example Shinkansen.

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Post by fcancalon Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:04 pm

Rakago wrote:It happens with every route/train...

The route I used in the video was Genova Brignole - Recco (available here)
The loco I used is available here (password is SBB VSOE).

Hope it helps.
Please take care: the link for the SBB VSOE seems not going directly to Google Drive and brings a collection of viruses...

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