BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

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BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by Movingmillion on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:02 pm

Hello again.
Several lines of inquiry here. Just asking for information about original plans for routes and such, and no links. I wondering if there were ever any plans to upgrade the 1974 version of the Northern Line to the base of the openBVE NL route? If so, were there any trains originally planned to go with it?

Another route that I remember reading about around 2010 was a planned Metropolitan Line route from Harrow-on-the-Hill to Uxbridge. Did that route get anywhere, or was the only progress at that time the website and a post to go with it with a map of the route?

There is also a mysterious legacy version of a Central Line route. The account on Flickr under the name Anonymous-BVE, which definitely has zero relation to the other 'anonymous' bve media channels that have appeared on the internet, has several photos of this route. I say that it has no relation to the other anonymous accounts because of the fact that these photos were taken several years before those accounts became public on YouTube, and because those accounts use openBVE and this one appears to use BVE 2/4. It appears to have gone through almost the entire line, being seen at Gants Hill, Ealing Broadway, and Stratford. This leads me to believe that this route somehow went from Ealing Broadway to at least Gants Hill. Anyone know what happened to this route, and who possibly created it? A member of my development group has suggested that it is the developer of the Shephards Bush to Marble Arch route.

I also distinctly remember a legacy version of the Jubilee Line route. I can't remember who posted the pictures, but I do remember that they might be a current moderator of this forum. They posted screenshots of, amongst other stations, St. John's Wood, and the immediate approach to Canning Town. I do know which route this is; I believe that this is correlated to the original Green Park to North Greenwich route, with the progress into this version of the route being scrapped in preference to the Green Park to Bermondsey route, which was a complete game-changer for the BVE London Underground scene which set the bar for all future routes. Just wondering if anyone knew who posted these screenshots at the time?

There was also a version of the Hammersmith and City Line that was being created for the BVE 2 platform. This route was started in the early years of BVE, and the only screenshot that exists of it, and proof of the route's existence as a whole, is a very nice capture of a scene just passing Hammersmith Depot with an unrefurbished C Stock on the opposing track. I do believe with further research that this was planned to be a route set in the past, around 1989, which would have been an interesting experience. What was the fate of this route, specifically what caused its development cancellation?

I will finish off this essay with a question about the Kings Line. It has been mentioned on this board before, and perhaps it will not be the last time. This route was not released either, but was a very promising route in the very early days of BVE, having a planned release date of the 7th of July, 2002, which is longer than some members of this board have lived; me included! It included the Chelsea to Hackney Line, which will now be encompassed into the planned Crossrail 2, and the full route plan was for it to run from Wimbledon to Thamesmead. I presume that this would have also had some interchanges with the Beck Line, which is a brilliant route from the same era. What caused this route's cancellation.

Sorry for the long post this time, I wanted to put all my eggs in one basket.
Dexter Montague

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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by graymac on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:21 pm

Let me guess. Maybe any combination or single one of these possibilities:
High hopes and zero (or precious little) ability.
Too much ambition.
Relying (or hoping) for "others" to volunteer to join in and do all the work.
Declaring the next best thing since sliced bread, then realising inability to deliver . . . .

If every promised new route was delivered at all we would be swamped with stuff.
I'd take the view that none of the past broken promises are likely to materialise and anyone with the competence to build a new work would be doing it instead of bothering with failed or unfinished projects.
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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by Movingmillion on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:26 pm

With all due respect I am just curious as to the fate of old routes. Perhaps I am not capable of developing at this time due to terrible hardware, but I am assisting my team in any way I can. I just want(ed) to know the fat of these attempts to build these routes, and what the plans were for the Northern Line if fate did not turn out the way it did.

I should mention that work is continuing swimmingly with the route, and I do admit that I do not have that big of a part to play in the route, and full credit will go to the people involved, and I won't be taking credit really at all for the route.

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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by NoobDev.exe on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:43 pm

I do remember 2 of these routes being around. Route 1: Metropolitan Line (Piccadilly pack). It consisted of the whole Piccadilly Line along with one Metropolitan route (the one you mentioned, to Uxbridge). It can be found on the Hmmsim Rutas Y Trenes VK group.

Route 2: Hammersmith and City Line for BVE2. This is still around, the link isn't dead either, it is very much alive and the developer is still around, although they stopped BVE development a while ago. I think it is the whole Hammersmith and City line, Westbound, in present day (2002) London. You may have heard of them, Beno, who has a site called BenoBVE (yes that is right). Search for it and click on the second link.

However, I have to agree with Graymac here. Have you bitten off a bit more than you can chew? Its fine if you have. I had a few false starts a few months ago. I would like to see how the route is progressing though, maybe a screenshot? Very Happy PM me if you want.

Hope this helped anyway!
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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by Movingmillion on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:51 pm

The first route was just cut out from the Piccadilly Line by TomBeevers2000, sadly. I can't remember the group who started making that route.

The second route there is, albeit a very similar concept to the route I was talking about, a different one altogether. This route in question had a speculative running from Hammersmith to Whitechapel, or the other direction, and was created by someone called Robert I believe. They also had lovely markers too!

For the third thing, I have not bitten off more than I can chew (yet!) and this is just my personal curiosity. Baker Street has received a pretty good overhaul thanks to recent works by a great developer of ours who is fully credited on the public updates posted to the BVETube Facebook (not Messenger thankfully) page.

Speaking of BENO though, I went on his livestream today and asked him a few questions about his very old routes from before he made the H&C and Paris Metro routes. He stated that he thought that he indeed did have the routes from when he made them, and confirmed to me that he created a route from Amersham to Amersham Old Town for a fictional Metropolitan Line route scenario.

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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by graymac on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:59 pm

All I'm reminding you is that a LOT of stuff has "fallen by the wayside" over the years - particularly when you look a proposals for routes - and unless there's something new to show there's not much point in bothering with what once "might have been" and obviously wasn't.
I'm delighted when new developers show a spark of initiative and get some work done, I'm pleased to see what NoobDev has done so far on the Barry Railway, by his own effort and initiative as it appears. Now you're saying , "I do admit that I do not have that big of a part to play in the route"  -  a statement which I find less than inspiring, for all of the hype and grandiose swaggering with fancy tiles. Mind you don't fall down the "credibility gap"!! Or maybe you did already.
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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by ap1991 on Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:06 am

I started a thread last week full of nostalgic links to no longer available websites with some routes that looked very promising at the time (North Wales Coast), but as others have said, many routes never come to fruition, this could be for many, many reasons, I'd say the main reason being peoples interests move on.  Also, the BVE community hasn't always been this peaceful which did a bit of damage a few years ago.

The late Alan Wheeler, who I'll admit, I didn't always see eye to eye with, gave me a bit of advice that has always stuck, don't announce something in a blaze of glory until you have something concrete to show.
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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by Movingmillion on Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:52 pm

I have found a photo of what I believe was the Jubilee attempt I was talking about. I don't think it was a member of Admin after all; I just got a tad confused.


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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by Ad1992 on Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:51 pm

Movingmillion wrote:Hello again.

There is also a mysterious legacy version of a Central Line route. The account on Flickr under the name Anonymous-BVE, which definitely has zero relation to the other 'anonymous' bve media channels that have appeared on the internet, has several photos of this route. I say that it has no relation to the other anonymous accounts because of the fact that these photos were taken several years before those accounts became public on YouTube, and because those accounts use openBVE and this one appears to use BVE 2/4. It appears to have gone through almost the entire line, being seen at Gants Hill, Ealing Broadway, and Stratford. This leads me to believe that this route somehow went from Ealing Broadway to at least Gants Hill. Anyone know what happened to this route, and who possibly created it? A member of my development group has suggested that it is the developer of the Shephards Bush to Marble Arch route.

I have seen a few Central line routes in my time.
The first ever route was John Owen's Shepherds bush to marble arch bve 2 demo. The second was by someone called Miles Codrington, he started making a route for Bve4 and even a pretty good 1992 stock train too. Then it was decided both him and someone called Phillip So would collaborate and build the route from Ealing Broadway to Hainault via Newbury park. I know this because I went out to record the announcements for the never finished route. Some of the recordings you can hear in my Central Line demo The route was never completed and the only thing that got a partial release, was a section of a new route running from Marble Arch to Holborn and a return. This was to simulate the fact that at the time the Central line was partially closed due to the derailment.

There was also another very simple cartoony looking route that I briefly played on. It did run along most of the line but very very very very very basic looking. I believe this is the Stratford one you are referring to, I do remember it going through Stratford and Leytonstone etc.


There was also a version of the Hammersmith and City Line that was being created for the BVE 2 platform. This route was started in the early years of BVE, and the only screenshot that exists of it, and proof of the route's existence as a whole, is a very nice capture of a scene just passing Hammersmith Depot with an unrefurbished C Stock on the opposing track. I do believe with further research that this was planned to be a route set in the past, around 1989, which would have been an interesting experience. What was the fate of this route, specifically what caused its development cancellation?
That was a route by someone called Robert Hull, the route was finished from Hammersmith up to Euston Square if I remember correctly. Robert had set the route in 1989 because he was using the Video 125 video to build the route, right down to the Silver C stock object he made. That is going back quite sometime now. I have no idea why the route stopped.


I also distinctly remember a legacy version of the Jubilee Line route. I can't remember who posted the pictures, but I do remember that they might be a current moderator of this forum. They posted screenshots of, amongst other stations, St. John's Wood, and the immediate approach to Canning Town. I do know which route this is; I believe that this is correlated to the original Green Park to North Greenwich route, with the progress into this version of the route being scrapped in preference to the Green Park to Bermondsey route, which was a complete game-changer for the BVE London Underground scene which set the bar for all future routes. Just wondering if anyone knew who posted these screenshots at the time?
That was a version made especially for Acton Town. It ran from Baker Street to Canning Town. The St Johns Wood screenshot was I think my first attempt at building it. It might also have been me that posted the screenshot I can't honestly remember. I do know that the texture there is mine though because it had not been altered to match my Swiss Cottage one.
 

I will finish off this essay with a question about the Kings Line. It has been mentioned on this board before, and perhaps it will not be the last time. This route was not released either, but was a very promising route in the very early days of BVE, having a planned release date of the 7th of July, 2002, which is longer than some members of this board have lived; me included! It included the Chelsea to Hackney Line, which will now be encompassed into the planned Crossrail 2, and the full route plan was for it to run from Wimbledon to Thamesmead. I presume that this would have also had some interchanges with the Beck Line, which is a brilliant route from the same era. What caused this route's cancellation.
No idea.
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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by fam622 on Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:05 pm

Not rushing you on this, but when will that class 313 be released? (Out of curiosity)
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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by Ad1992 on Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:25 pm

Next year maybe. The original idea was it was going to be released along with the phase one of the Jubilee route, hence the inclusion of the NLL.
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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by fam622 on Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:17 pm

Cool, plus will it be compatible with all OpenBVE BR routes (i.e. the Network West Midlands map) as the LUL stock you have made have always been compatible only with the specific routes they come with
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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by Greater Anglia Metro on Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:55 am



I have a mostly finished Swiss Cottage and St Johns Wood - track is complete from Finchley Road to West Ham.

However, I have (again) not done anything for a long while as I am currently training to become a train driver and that is taking priority.
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Re: BVE Plans and Cancelled Routes

Post by Movingmillion on Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:19 pm

That is good news from both of you. It is fantastic to see progress still being done with the circumstances that people are facing at this current time. I have found some more screenshots from the same place.

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