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Post by mrknowitall on Tue May 28, 2019 9:38 pm

Hello all,

I decided a while back to take a fairly long pause from the scene after hitting a 'brick wall', and then other life events took place and after the loss of a good friend who taught me a lot in regards to BVE i thought i was done for good. But I've decided to blow the dust of the old hard drives and see what i can come up with.

I know there is an old saying of time is a great healer, and some may say there hasn't been enough time, but just want to start with an apology. I've upset a few along the way with this game, and a lot in the early days. But for all those who i have upset, i am truly sorry.

Anyway, back to the main topic. Pioneer trains will now be requesting to be removed from BVE-T's hosting, and will be going back to a 'Wix' site (not the original, me and Adam H both cannot gain access to it!).  i have had a few messages via different means asking why certain downloads don't work, this is because i had all items on a old hard drive that decided to fail. Media-fire links will work though. so to sum up on my current PC i have only the base 350 me and Al had around 5 years ago. 

trains currently "unavailable" due to the hard drive failure are


  • Class 185
  • Class 221
  • Class 370
  • Class 444
  • Class 450
  • Class 91
  • Class 180
  • Class 156 
  • Class 158 
  • Class 159
  • Class 43


 If anyone has these, or knows of a place they may be getting hosted, please can you send me the links via PM?  Rolling Eyes Very Happy



The first phase Will be a complete rework and overhaul of the Class 350, but not setting a time scale on that.  And the site will be posted on this thread once its ready to roll. 




I hope you all are keeping well!

Ben.
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Post by SP1900 on Tue May 28, 2019 10:29 pm

Hi, thanks for making a big return it’s good that the pioneer trains addons are coming back. They are some of the best models I’ve seen around. One question. Since I’m working on a class 360 (modified class 350 with permission) would it be ok if you could host it with the rest of your stuff once it’s finished?

P.S. did you ask Jeffrey Wong if he had any of the missing trains? I’ve been told he has nearly all of Alan’s old stuff
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Post by mrknowitall on Tue May 28, 2019 10:41 pm

Of course we can! do send me some pictures via PM when you can! would love to see the progress!

Ill be contacting Jeff in the near future to see if he has anything.
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Post by theflyingoreo on Wed May 29, 2019 1:23 pm

Welcome Back!

I've had a ruffle through my drives and found

Class 91
Class 180 First Hull
Class 450
Class 350117
Class 185

Do these look familiar?

Pioneer Trains Site Sdasdasdasd

Are these any good to you?

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Post by mrknowitall on Wed May 29, 2019 1:37 pm

theflyingoreo wrote:Welcome Back!

I've had a ruffle through my drives and found

Class 91
Class 180 First Hull
Class 450
Class 350117
Class 185

Do these look familiar?

Pioneer Trains Site Sdasdasdasd

Are these any good to you?


Yes!

Any chance you could pop them in a zipped folder and PM me the link please?
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Post by mrknowitall on Wed May 29, 2019 3:05 pm

The new site is now "live" on the new hosting server, and the domain is also connected. once up and running all downloads will be uploaded. link - https://www.pioneertrains.co.uk/
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Post by TheNetworkerLover on Wed May 29, 2019 5:15 pm

This is great news!
I cannot wait for you guys to be back in bve.
Youre models truly are the best. And ill be glad to get my donnies on the 444 and the 91.

Looking forward to it ben!
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Post by Movingmillion on Wed May 29, 2019 7:24 pm

Good models indeed. If you think its a good idea you might want to think about possible encryption to make sure no one steals these models without permission.
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Post by Stevegr on Wed May 29, 2019 7:30 pm

I echo everyone else on this thread!

So I wait for all the great new releases that must be coming soon!

All new content I hope and not including anything made by other people that are not credited then they would be truly excellent!

Good luck to you.....

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Post by TheNetworkerLover on Wed May 29, 2019 8:37 pm

How is that going to work exactly?
Im not sure if bve will allow it as in it might not work as it cant read the files. Not 100% certain on that. But yes.
I not comfortable with the whole hmmsim game communities around with them I've seen a lot of bve routes and trains plunged into it. Like Steve Thomas's 150. That was some harcroft pack somebody release ages ago. Just some copy.

Pisses me of that does.
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Post by mrknowitall on Wed May 29, 2019 8:40 pm

Stevegr wrote:I echo everyone else on this thread!

So I wait for all the great new releases that must be coming soon!

All new content I hope and not including anything made by other people that are not credited then they would be truly excellent!

Good luck to you.....


The only person i really aimed my apology to was you, but i don't except it getting accepted.

The contact will of course be checked and packaged as before. but ideally focused on the 350/450/185/444/91 rolling stock for now.
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Post by mrknowitall on Wed May 29, 2019 8:41 pm

TheNetworkerLover wrote:This is great news!
I cannot wait for you guys to be back in bve.
Youre models truly are the best. And ill be glad to get my donnies on the 444 and the 91.

Looking forward to it ben!


Thank you, im hopeful to have a train or two released before Christmas, but not setting  an exact time or date.
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Post by leezer3 on Wed May 29, 2019 8:43 pm

Movingmillion wrote:Good models indeed. If you think its a good idea you might want to think about possible encryption to make sure no one steals these models without permission.

The sim does not support encryption or DRM in any way.

Further, there are no plans to add this.

Mod Note:
Appropriate credits should *always* be present, and if these are missing from work by any developer, the board team will take action.

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Post by mrknowitall on Wed May 29, 2019 8:44 pm

Movingmillion wrote:Good models indeed. If you think its a good idea you might want to think about possible encryption to make sure no one steals these models without permission.


I'm not bothered about "encryption" or "stealing" anymore. I will however honour Al's request before his passing. But anything PT release (exterior wise) will be a free to use/edit item!

Im still to fully sink my teeth in to the developing aspect again! it seems BVE has progressed a lot in my time away.
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Post by TheNetworkerLover on Wed May 29, 2019 8:58 pm

Well thats good. So anyone can modify it? Thats quite good actually. It means players can learn how to code and apply their skills to your models and improve to make their own models.

Credits are still a need. At least to thank A.W for the models and creating them.

Rest in Peace Alan.

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Post by mrknowitall on Wed May 29, 2019 9:03 pm

TheNetworkerLover wrote:Well thats good. So anyone can modify it? Thats quite good actually. It means players can learn how to code and apply their skills to your models and improve to make their own models.

Credits are still a need. At least to thank A.W for the models and creating them.

Rest in Peace Alan.



the credits wont change, respective authors still have their rules per say. but what i was saying is that i am open to allow anyone to have a attempt at remodelling or re texturing a train to their needs. they can if they wish, ask for me to host it, or can host the exterior themselves. 

as for the cabs, and other such items, that is down to the original authors
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Post by Stevegr on Wed May 29, 2019 9:19 pm

mrknowitall wrote:
Stevegr wrote:I echo everyone else on this thread!

So I wait for all the great new releases that must be coming soon!

All new content I hope and not including anything made by other people that are not credited then they would be truly excellent!

Good luck to you.....


The only person i really aimed my apology to was you, but i don't except it getting accepted.

The contact will of course be checked and packaged as before. but ideally focused on the 350/450/185/444/91 rolling stock for now.
So are you now going to add the credits that should of been still there?

It's funny you and some other person who still seems to sends me emails although he's dead never bothered to care who's work you nicked?

A 158 cabview by Steve Green of TSC or a 180 by me?

Or the hard bits!

Cabview, animation,sounds and performance config?

You have always been a joke!

If I am banned from here well who's loss not mine, you have failed to care to notice what has happened over the years here.

I must admit I am totally disappointed with all of you that have been in Bve for years and never wanted to care.

I want a train I don't care how...

Sad.

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Post by TheNetworkerLover on Wed May 29, 2019 9:29 pm

Not saying go around using whatever. Credits are needed. But like you said. Do whatever to our hearts content and maybe ask you to host it. Some other developer made a 360 for bve a while ago. Not sure who. But that kind of thing is cool. Shows our skills and nice liveries. Im looking forward to someone doing an ic225 livery for the 91
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Post by Stevegr on Wed May 29, 2019 9:50 pm

leezer3 wrote:
Movingmillion wrote:Good models indeed. If you think its a good idea you might want to think about possible encryption to make sure no one steals these models without permission.

The sim does not support encryption or DRM in any way.

Further, there are no plans to add this.

Mod Note:
Appropriate credits should *always* be present, and if these are missing from work by any developer, the board team will take action.


The 158 from there has the 158 by Steve Green and a lot of other people.

The First Great Western one for example has all the place names on it including Bve4Trains or my textures!

Plus the riveted coachwork of a 143 or from my 143!

Then there's the 180 I never made the cabview the animation or anything at all to do with that one.

Note:
Post cleaned of personal attacks.

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Post by leezer3 on Wed May 29, 2019 10:25 pm

Mod Note:

Topic temporarily locked to investigate issues raised.
 I've cleaned the argument posts up, but will leave the 'issues' list for reference.

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Post by Quork on Wed May 29, 2019 11:47 pm

As announced by Leezer, the board of moderators is working on this. I trust you'll all behave yourselves and keep calm. Don't do or write anything you could (or should) regret - all of you. Thank you.
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Post by Dexter on Fri May 31, 2019 10:15 pm

Oh, hello there, this hasn't been on for a while...

First of all, I would like to express a big thank you to the team members for making a very good decision and taking appropriate actions. It is good to be surrounded with sensible people. :-)

Alright let's get to the nice stuff, shall we? At this point, let me clearly state that I do not take any side in this. I can understand there always two sides in a disagreement, obviously with each one of them with their own version of the story, ie. with their own truth. For a person watching this from the outside it is impossible to determine which side is telling the truth (usually the truth is somewehre in between as we all know) and therefore it would be unfair to think someone's right without further evidence. Speaking of evidence - it is always a tough task to provide it. One person can say the credits were not there - the other can say they were. Now, who is right and who is not? Editing a text file is the simplest of operations, I can provide so much evidence for any of the sides... you know what I mean. We have all seen it in the past and I just can't understand what is the reason for this to be brought back over and over again.

Let me try to think of Steve's view of the situation. Steve has produced a lot of quality work for the simulator, and, as any other developer, got very little in terms of reward for it. What do we actually do this for? We are not paid developers, basically all we get is a pat on the back (virtual one as well), a few expressions of thanks from happy users, recognition in the developer community. Some of us got helped out with site running costs as well. As rewarding as it might be, it doesn't pay anyone's rent, it doesn't feed anyone's children, it does not make a living. Yet we are still enthusiastic enough to try and bring something new on the table.

Now, having said that, imagine a situation that someone else comes and uses your work to create something else. Let's call it a derivation, or a fork, pick whichever you like. There are basically two options - in the first case, that person will use common sense and come to the original developer and at least thank him for the effort he has put in the work. Or maybe credit that person upon release of the derived work by saying: "Hello, world, this work is created on basis of..." I believe this is how it should be when large portions of someone else's work have been used. Be polite. Appreciate and recognize what people have done, if it has helped you. The second, antagonist case, is called ignorance. To me it looks like Steve probably feels he did not get enough recognition or appreciation. But then again, I am just an observer from the outside sharing my personal impressions.

Ben has also provied a lot of quality material for the simulator. Ben might say the credit was given when needed. It might well have been, I do not see too many valid reasons why not put a couple of lines adhering to the abovementioned in a text file. The thing is that no one will ever be able to determine what EXACTLY has or has not been mentioned in the original text files. We cannot call a person a liar unless we have seen the act happening with our own eyes - therefore it is not possible for any of us to judge the situation and provide a verdict. Not such verdict that we wouldn't be forced to regret later, as Quork mentioned.

***

Let me now give you a bit of a third-party point of view these things as well. I have had about two hours of time, which I wanted to dedicated to the sim today. The original intention was to try and get back to developing, create something new, maybe put a few objects into a route, maybe create a new object to go with a route. But then I stumbled upon this... so I was sat here for one hour, thinking about how to resolve an issue I haven't caused and most importantly, how to solve it right. Another 30 minutes were put into writing this reply, because I am not a native speaker and I don't type very fast. I know, this is my duty as an admin of a forum, I am expected to be able to deal with issues that might arise. I am fine with that, even though it is not an ideal scenario of my openBVE evening. Behind every beautiful thing there is some kind of pain.

While thinking, I have realized my team mates (Chris and Quork) must have put time into thinking about this as well. The question is - why is this necessary? Why can't we all draw a solid line and move forwards? This community is not very large in terms of numbers, and it is actually tiny when it comes to people capable of providing new content. Living the past is a highway to hell; it has always been and it will always be. Let's not drive on that highway. Let's take mistakes we have made in the past into account and learn from them. Let's apologize for when we haven't done the right thing. Let's think were we have failed before we point out the fails of others. Let's try to carry the weight together, not put it on someone else's shoulders.

In this community, I have probably experienced nearly everything. From being happy when I firstly released my route to being targeted with absolutely disgusting and fabricated accusations. Everything I had to go through made be stronger and I have forgiven those, who have hurt me. Try to do the same and let's have better days ahead.

Concordia res parvæ crescunt. Discordia res maximæ dilabuntur.


Last edited by Dexter on Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:18 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Quork on Fri May 31, 2019 11:09 pm

We've talked in the board as well a little bit about the issue and basically there was little to discuss, all three of us had the same thought: Let the past rest in peace. We're very proud to have such talented and gifted addon developers here like the two of you, Steve and Ben. That's why we want to look into the future and keep all those, way too many, fights of the past where they belong: In the past.

There has been enough of taking sides in stories long ended. Thus our decision is: We're very happy to have you back on board, Ben. However we decided that we don't want the old stuff to come back here. Explicitely without taking sides and explicitely not deciding on the issues raised we ask you to not post the old trains/cabs etc. containing work by other developers, especially those deceased, no matter what their consent status might have been or not been. As far as we're concerned, there is absolutely no doubt you'll produce new high-quality addons from a fresh start. We're very excited to watch you produce them!

Also we don't want old fights to resurface (or new fights start over old stories). Please judge what people do now and here, not what they might or might not have done a long time ago. The moderator team has a close eye on all potentially dangerous topics and we won't hesitate to take moderative measures when we see the necessity. We won't take sides (or at least that's what we're aiming for - we're only human beings after all), we'll hit whoever and whyever crosses a line.

I hope you all agree with our terms Wink

The topic is opened again.
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Post by mrknowitall on Fri May 31, 2019 11:32 pm

I'll happily agree to all terms set, and will now go through every folder before compressing, and add the new standard "credit" file, in addition to those already in there. 

side note.


31/05/2019

Class 350 117 with 3D cab is now live and ready to download. Any issues please PM me direct on this forum.

https://www.pioneertrains.co.uk/downloads
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Post by TheNetworkerLover on Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:19 pm

Thank goodness the mess has been cleared up. I too agree with the terms and have 0 problems with it. I'd like to also say that the new class 350 available as of now is incredible. My desktop is from windows vista days, it could barely run the original class 350 model with its frame eating pivoting bogies. Now the error has been fixed, it now also includes a 3d cab and is absolutely flawless. I get 20fps and thats not normal. Usually i get at am average of 15fps or 12fps depending on the route. I can play it on the high detailed (also a framerate eater) NWM 2019 with 20fps. Im astounded.

Well done ben and his team at Pioneer Trains. For even just having one train available, its outstanding. Its a pleasure to have you back. 👏
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