A small wip teaser

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A small wip teaser

Post by Ad1992 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:49 pm

Just a small teaser update screenshot.
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by SP1900 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:13 pm

Looking a lot better now! I wish you the best of luck with finishing Phase 2 and eventually the whole route which i hope will be under construction soon
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by Ad1992 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:18 pm

I had a feeling you might appreciate that. Wink
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by SP1900 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:06 pm

Ad1992 wrote:I had a feeling you might appreciate that. Wink
Yep. I’m glad you took my suggestion into account. Thanks.  Very Happy I’m loving the 3D couplers also. Hopefully Everything will go well
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by openxrailbve on Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:21 am

Looking forward to seeing the beauty of the station that train stops at. Great work
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by Dexter on Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:13 pm

Hmmm, I am thinking abou putting normals to that train... it would make a difference on the roof. :-)
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by SP1900 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:25 pm

Dexter wrote:Hmmm, I am thinking abou putting normals to that train... it would make a difference on the roof. :-)
Wait can you explain what do the normals do to the train? I think I might use them for the D stock
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by Delsin on Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:34 pm

Dexter wrote:Hmmm, I am thinking abou putting normals to that train... it would make a difference on the roof. :-)
Does openbve already support that? That'd also be handy for 1938ts or 1960ts doors
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by SP1900 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:47 pm

Delsin wrote:
Dexter wrote:Hmmm, I am thinking abou putting normals to that train... it would make a difference on the roof. :-)
Does openbve already support that? That'd also be handy for 1938ts or 1960ts doors
I think it is. I’ve see the GenerateNormals command. If I knew how to use them I’d make the class 487
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by Delsin on Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:23 pm

SP1900 wrote:I think it is. I’ve see the GenerateNormals command. If I knew how to use them I’d make the class 487
I thought of normal maps, it's a special "texture" specifying how each pixel of the main texture should reflect light, used to make surface unevenness more visible and convincing aka create "pits" or slightly protruding parts on surface without actually modelling them. Don't know about BVE2/4, but I haven't seen GenerateNormals take any effect on model  scratch
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by Dexter on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:07 pm

"Generate normals" is now obsolete and does not do anything in openBVE. Normals have to be set manually.
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by leezer3 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:01 pm

Delsin wrote:
SP1900 wrote:I think it is. I’ve see the GenerateNormals command. If I knew how to use them I’d make the class 487
I thought of normal maps, it's a special "texture" specifying how each pixel of the main texture should reflect light, used to make surface unevenness more visible and convincing aka create "pits" or slightly protruding parts on surface without actually modelling them. Don't know about BVE2/4, but I haven't seen GenerateNormals take any effect on model  scratch

GenerateNormals was introduced with BVE2 & the CSV object format.

IIRC objects *without* GenerateNormals, or faces places after this command are treated differently with regards to the directional lighting within the route & any emissive colors.


openBVE ignores this command entirely.
Assuming I remember, I'll try and play with the differences in BVE2 at some stage.

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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by SP1900 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:57 pm

Oh I see. I was hoping it would help me model objects and trains with many curved faces such as the class 487. But I’m sure there’s another way round.
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by Delsin on Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:56 pm

Curvy bodyshells are always a pain to code, but they look really nice in the end. 1996ts is somewhat easier to build because of that (and also protruding doors, saves work on door pockets). What's really time-consuming is side windows, unless you decide to form glass borders with tex transparency only and it's where older trains (59/62ts etc) become easier to build since most windows don't have curved corners
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by ebennekom on Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:53 am

I'm hardly the best qualified person to talk about normals since I only learned (from advice given on this forum) how to properly use them just a couple of weeks ago, but they will make a huge difference on any curved surface.

From what I've gathered you can force the game's lighting to follow the direction of the normals you've declared rather than just lighting the default direction any face has been layed in. (can someone please explain this better?).

A (terrible) example below. The bus' front end has a texture comprising of 3 faces. Without normals it looks really flat (first image) with normals guided lighting makes it look more curvy.

With default (no) normals:


With custom normals:


There are way better explanations outthere, but basically if you have an outside curved surface (like your trains roof) it should look like a hedgehogs back if loaded in objectviewer with normals switched on.

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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by Delsin on Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:14 pm

The purpose of normals is to tell the lighting system the angle at which the surface is turned to the light source. That's why it's a bad idea to, say, code right side of bus/traincar with face2, then just copy it with minuses on every x coordinate in Vertex (AddFace2 and AddVertex in csv syntax respectively), you have to change coding to flip normals too since back faces added by hanging 2 to Face/AddFace are lit exactly like the main face. (I've seen many models coded like this, makes them seem quite odd.) Personally, I try to avoid face2, I add 2 for better visualization while building, but then remove it except where it's needed (most commonly, glass surfaces)
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Re: A small wip teaser

Post by Dexter on Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:19 pm

Never do AddFace2, you will get all messed up with the lighting.
Imagine the normals simply as vectors coming into the given vertex. For this purpose, your vertex becomes a virtual intersection of all three axis (it virtually has coordinates 0,0,0) and the values you give to your normals then define the direction FROM WHERE THE LIGHT ARRIVES.

So if a normal is:

  • -1,0,0, then the light comes form the left
  • 0,-1,0, then the light comes form below
  • 0,0,-1, then the light comes from front to the back
  • 1,0,0, then the light comes from the right
  • 0,1,0, the the light comes from the top
  • 0,0,1, then the light comes from back to the front


You can use any combination (decimal numbers) to change the direction of that vector. Hope you guys understand. Smile

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Re: A small wip teaser

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